Comments on:

By: martin1223

martin1223 — Sun, 15 Aug 2010 23:34:18 +0000

snowmelt
within the birch forest
the moonlit skull

By: Jeanne Kirby Bruneau

Jeanne Kirby Bruneau — Sun, 14 Mar 2010 00:39:45 +0000

Bill,
Your imagery is so strong and compelling–I'm really tempted to use your poems as idea for paintings (with your permission, of course). i can really "see" the words.

By: syllableº17

syllableº17 — Sun, 28 Feb 2010 07:17:42 +0000

How so, judith ingram?

By: syllableº17

syllableº17 — Sun, 28 Feb 2010 07:13:29 +0000

Good point, angie, After all is said and done, a rose remains what it is, a rose. How much more so a ku, which either works or not?

By: angie

angie — Sun, 28 Feb 2010 05:04:25 +0000

@syllableº17 –

Juliet:
“What’s in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet.”
Romeo and Juliet (II, ii, 1-2)

proper, at the end of the day?

By: judith ingram

judith ingram — Sat, 27 Feb 2010 05:52:34 +0000

Bill . . . I like your haiku very much and can see the white bones in every sense of the word.

Syllable 17, I think it is time for you “to get a life”!

By: syllableº17

syllableº17 — Sat, 27 Feb 2010 04:04:49 +0000

No simile in this senryu of yours, Bill – a permitable allusion in the type of white you designate on the tree, I would hazard. Issa was fond of doing this in his haiku – a lot (by way of an authentic example).

I think, sadly, what we have to live with are two different definitions of ‘haiku’ :

1
The popular, Western, definition, which uses (confuses really) the term ‘haiku’ to designate any Japaneseque short form poem, whatever rules, or not, employed.

2
The Japanese definition (in my own view, the benchmark), which has certain requirements; seasonality (including cultural events which honour the big wheel turning,) being somewhat crucial to a Taoist/Zen, et al, ethos.

This is where senryu and zappai are useful categories, being that they provide a local habitation and place for all the non-haiku poems (including much jetsom and flotsam!) which use SOME of the structural elements of a haiku proper, but for non-haiku porpoises, typically.

But, at the end of the day, and to repeat, ‘a rose is a rose by any other name,’ right?

— º17

By: Bill Waters

Bill Waters — Fri, 26 Feb 2010 00:48:05 +0000

Over the years, I’ve seen senryu defined in a number of intelligent ways — so many ways, in fact, that I’ve come to see the defining of senryu as an overlay of spectrums: simple to nuanced, traditional to experimental, Japanese-centric to Western-centric, and so on. I’m not surprised, then, that there is debate over whether this poem is senryu or haiku. All I can say with certainty is that I intended the poem as a haiku (and even its status as a haiku might be debated by some because I chose to use an overt simile).

In any case, I’m glad you found my poem enjoyable — thank you, everybody, for your comments! Through conversation, we all win as we sharpen our understanding of the craft and deepen our appreciation of its products. :- )

By: syllableº17

syllableº17 — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 23:44:53 +0000

Yes, L.G. Sand, clearly, Bills’ senryu is indeed a senryu. I quite like it. As for definitions, a rose is a rose by any other name, right? What has Dylan got to do with it? Leave the poor guy alone!

a dog in the snow
chases its tail
for a laugh

— sº17

By: L.G. Sand

L.G. Sand — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:52:17 +0000

as with all your posts, syllableº17, you are taking a very narrow and personal view of Bill’s haiku and attempting to foist it upon a larger readership. Rhonda, you’re right on.

Even after all this discussion, my impression is of animal bones bleached by the sun – no human element for me, not that there is anything wrong with the human element in haiku. I’m sure I don’t need to remind you that it is acceptable to write of the human element in modern English language haiku – urban ku for example. After all, whenever I enter the forest or the ocean, I enter the food chain and not necessarily at the top. If that isn’t a basic example of the natural order, then. . . .

So, if it is “true haiku”, or “tru ku” you seek, then you have come to the wrong site. Dylan has and continues to do a good job of editing a fine site of modern English language haiku, tanka, senryu and micro poetry. Thank you for your efforts Dylan.